Monday, November 4, 2013




The Annual General Body meeting of IESM was attended by veterans from Delhi, Haryana, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Karnataka, Punjab, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Chandigarh. The meeting started at 1000h. Gen Sec Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM welcomed the members and noted that the Quorum was not complete; He adjourned the meeting and declared that many more members would be on the way for attending the AGM, he announced that the meeting would reassemble after 30 min as per the rules.
After waiting for 30 Min

1. Gp Capt VK Gandhi Gen Sec IESM welcomed ex-servicemen for the AGM. He announced that today is the fifth AGM of IESM. Last four meetings were held in Noida near Delhi. This is for information of all that maximum members of IESM are from Maharashtra. He announced that more than 10000 members of IESM, out of total membership of more than 25000, are from Maharashtra and hence Pune has been chosen for this year’s AGM. 22 ex-servicemen organizations are associate members of IESM associate organizations and 57 organizations have pledged their support to IESM and its objectives. IESM is therefore pan India organization having members from 17 states of India and from 10 countries around the world. He announced that it is matter of great pride to conduct AGM of brave ex-servicemen in land of Great Warrior of Marathas Veer Shivaji. He announced that Account statement of IESM for the year will be presented to the house and then other agenda points will be discussed. 

2. The meeting was attended by more than 4500 (more than 500 life members plus 4029 associate members) members including life members and associate organizations.  Details of associate organizations which attended the AGM are given below.

Org Name Org Head Strength
Chiplun Taluka Maji Sainik Sangh Chiplun Sub Suresh Govindrao Shinde 1100

Ex Air warriors Association Gr Capt P S Pardesi 55

Ex-Servicemen Welfare Association Kolhapur Col Vijay K Gaikwad 2240

Tridal Sangh Ambajogai  MWO NB Puri 108

ESM Welfare Organization Dombivali (W) MA Shirke and JV Redakar 296

Mahi Sainik vividh seva sanstha Akluj dis Solapur Veteran veerkumar s Doshi 230

Total 4029

As per  rules of IESM two members of Associate organizations can attend the AGM of IESM and they represent all members of their organization.   
3. Gp Capt CK Sharma Treasurer IESM was invited to present the Account Statement of the year 2012-13 (year ending on 31 March 2013). 

Presentation of Account Statement for the year 2012-13

4. Wg Cdr CK Sharma treasurer IESM presented the account statement for the year ending 31 March 2013. Account statement was explained to the audience. All questions raised by the audience were satisfactorily replied. Account Statement was put up for passing by the house. Passing of the account statement was proposed by Col MS Naik and seconded by Wg Cdr Ravi Mani. The Account Statement was passed by the house with voice vote. Approved account statement is given at App 'A'

Appointment of Auditors for 2013-14

5. Wg Cdr CK Sharma informed the house that Mr Rajiv and Varun and company have been auditing IESM accounts for last four years for a nominal fee of Rs 48000/ per year. The auditors had done a good job and are ready to continue with the same fee for the year 2013-14. One of the member suggested that many ESM are these days undertaking this task and IESM should explore hiring some ESM for this task. The treasurer confirmed that IESM would be glad to accept services of any ESM as auditor for the same fee unfortunately no ESM has volunteered for undertaking this task. However IESM will be very happy to engage any ESM if he wishes to work with IESM. He asked the house to approve the name of Rajiv and Varun and company as auditors for the year 2013-14 for IESM. The name of Rajiv Varun and co. as auditor for the year 2013-14 for IESM was proposed by Col Ramesh Pathak and seconded by Lt Col Abdulla. This was passed by voice vote by the house.

Journey of IESM in last five years

6. Gen Sec informed the house that IESM was formed in 2008. Some senior veterans realized that in this country there is no voice of veterans as there is no organization to present the problems of veterans. These learned veterans got together on 13 Aug 2008 at Noida and resolved to form an organization to look after the veterans and take up their cause with the authorities. The org was named Indian Ex-servicemen Movement (IESM). It was registered in Haryana state vide Regn No.DR/GGN/179 dtd 15 Dec 2008. IESM planned and conducted rallies, dharnas and invented new methods like returning of gallantry medals and memorandum signed in blood. He explained that these method delivered desired results and veterans’ demands of OROP was brought to the center stage and conscience of the nation. These methods had desired effect and committee after committee declared that OROP is the most genuine demand of veterans and reasons given by Government are not tenable. IESM strategy was so effective that Government increased pension of veterans twice after 6 CPC. This has happened for the first time. Govt also agreed to establish separate pay commission for Armed Forces in future. It is very important for all veterans to know that this increase is nowhere near our main demand of OROP.

7. Gen Sec informed audience that IESM has started four divisions to serve veterans. These are;
a) IESM Pension Division; He informed that pension division is headed by Gp Capt SS Phatak. He informed that IESM Pension division is working in 11 cities. These are Delhi, Noida, Pune, Jodhpur, Chennai, Hyderabad, Mysore, Bangaluru, Tirunuveli, Belgam  and Mumbai. Pension division has solved more than 33000 cases and got arrears worth more than 10 crores to veterans and widows. He narrated the case of Buldhana where 10 war widows of Kargil were being given a meager pension of Rs 2500/. Pension division took up their case and their pension was increased from a meager pension of Rs 2500/ to Rs 17520/ and each widow got arrears worth Rs 625000 each. This was greeted with claps from the audience. Gen Sec gave another example of widow of Flt Lt Shirodkar of Pune in which the widow could not get any pension as all documents were destroyed. Pen div took up their case and reconstructed the documents and managed to get veernari a pension after a struggle of two years. Another important recognition of IESM pension division was that the Pension division head Gp Capt SS Phatak was made head of pension cell of Maharashtra Government ESM cell. Cdr Ravi Pathak confirmed that he has had meeting with PCDA(O) and they had accepted to cooperate with IESM Pen div to solve veterans' pens problems. This is definitely a very good news for the veterans.

b) IESM ECHS Division; He informed that IESM ECHS division is headed by Air Mahl Kuldeep Rai. IESM coordinator for ECHS is Col RP Chaturvedi. A total of 28 regional centers have been approved. 26 are fully functional. Similarly 426 poly clinics have been approved, out of this 368 are fully functional. Many veterans and widows have got timely med care because of direct intervention of IESM. 

c) IESM CSD Division; He informed that IESM CSD division is headed by Gen Jagdish Chandra. IESM is working towards establishing CSD canteens in different corners of India to ensure CSD services to all veterans. 

d) IESM Legal Division; He informed that IESM is working to establish a legal division with the aim of providing free legal advice to all veterans. The main
objective of legal division would be to render free advice to veterans about technical legalities of their case.

8. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan was nominated as Chairman of first GB of IESM in 2008. He was then re-elected as Chairman in 2010 and then 2012. Somewhere in this period he started opposing the majority opinion of the GB members and started forcing his opinion on the GB. The members of GB realized this when they felt that Lt Gen Kadyan had started meeting the Raksha Mantri alone against the advice of GB that a delegation of IESM must visit any dignitary to discuss issues of veterans. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan steadfastly refused to accept advice of GB members and insisted that he would keep meeting the RM alone. It is noteworthy that despite claims of his cordial relations with the RM, none of the demands of veterans were approved by MOD, even pension of widows was not increased by MOD. 

9. In this period of five years IESM was able to make headway and shake the conscience of the nation about the neglect of veterans at the hands of Government. Along-with this recognition, IESM had its share of problems. Col Rajan resigned from IESM because majority of GB members did not agree to his demand of reducing the membership fee to Rs 10/ for all members irrespective of the rank as against existing Rs 100/, 200/ and 500/ for ORs, JCOs and Officers respectively. Col K Bhardwaj was expelled from IESM for anti IESM activities. These two incidents happened with full approval and insistence of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan. Majority in GB also approved these decisions.

10. Governing Body of IESM was working democratically till March 2012.  In early May 12, Army Hq informed IESM that an ex-servicemen rally is being organized in Palra village dist Jhajjhar on 16 May 2012. Army Hq asked IESM to support the rally and participate with full Josh. The rally was to be addressed by COAS Gen VK Singh PVSM, AVSM, YSM, ADC. The issue was discussed in GB meeting on 3 May 2012. All members of GB agreed to support the rally with all resources with the IESM. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan was the only opposing vote. The proposal was passed with 8 members voting for it and only one vote against it. Lt Gen Kadyan vehemently opposed the decision and even declared that he would not be attending the rally. He even gave an interview to Indian Express newspaper that this rally was not good for Ex-servicemen and hence they should not attend. This was a clear violation of majority decision of GB IESM. Most surprising thing happened on 16 May 12 morning when all of a sudden Lt Gen Raj Kadyan reached the venue of rally and insisted on speaking to the Ex-servicemen in the capacity of Chairman IESM. Army authorities did not permit him to speak.

11. After having created so many hurdles in the conduct of Ex-servicemen rally at Palra village, Lt Gen Kadyan surprised everyone in GB when he announced in a GB meeting that Army Hq has planned an Ex-servicemen rally at Jhunjhunu in Rajasthan on 18 Oct 12. He also announced that he had already spoken to some ESM in Jhunjhunu and instructed them to join the rally in a big way. GB members realized that this change of mind of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan to suddenly attend Ex-servicemen rally was because Gen VK Singh had retired and new COAS Gen BikramSingh PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, SM, VSM, ADC had taken over. It was very clear from this that welfare of Ex-servicemen was not on the mind of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan but it was personality clash with Gen VK Singh Ex COAS which prompted him to oppose the Ex-servicemen rally at Palra. By this time Lt Gen Raj Kadyan had started opposing all decision of GB and was getting over-ruled by majority. Lt Gen Kadyan did not like this and thus he had started making a plan to overcome this situation. Soon he found this in the coming elections for GB of IESM. Election to GB of IESM were planned for 2 Dec 12. He asked seven members from his village Jhajjhar to fill up nomination forms for election of member GB IESM. Governing Body members were surprised that all these years he was against inclusion of JCOs in GB and suddenly he wanted seven JCOs from his village to be included in GB. Reason was not far to see, GB members understood that Lt Gen Kadyan had planned this to create some support for himself in GB decision making process. Luckily the election team rejected five forms on technical reasons and two associates of Lt Gen Kadyan were elected as members of GB. Lt Gen Kadyan surprised all members participating in election on 2 Dec 12 when he suddenly announced the he was not happy with the elections and proposed elections to be held again after three months. There was a big uproar and the suggestion was discarded by a voice vote. It is important to mention here that Lt Gen Raj Kadyan paid Rs 17500/ to members of his village to come and vote for his nominated members contesting election.

12. After having failed in his attempt Lt Gen Raj Kadyan prompted 4 members, whose nomination forms were rejected, to file a complaint to the Registrar Societies against the election procedure. GB IESM in a meeting passed a resolution that three nominated members would present the case of IESM in Registrar’s office on 4 April 13. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan reached the office of Registrar and argued on behalf of four complainants much against the majority decision of GB. Governing Body members realized that this was point of no return and the situation is beyond control now. In GB meeting it was decided that Lt Gen Kadyan may be asked to explain his conduct of consistently opposing GB decisions. A letter was sent to him on 15 April expressing that he was not adhering to the majority decisions of GB and that the GB has lost  trust in him. Thereafter three reminders were sent to him. He did not reply any of the communication. GB took another initiative of sending a team of three members (Maj Gen Jaini, Col Kirit Joshipura and Hony Lt K Pandey) to Lt Gen Kadyan to avoid confrontation and save IESM from breaking. The team visited house of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and requested him to follow the democratic way of decision making in GB meetings. Lt Gen Kadyan did not agree to points put forward by the team. When all attempts at reconciliation failed, GB sent a Show Cause Notice to Lt Gen Raj Kadyan expressing that he was not adhering to majority decision of GB and GB had lost trust in him and asked him to send his reply by 25 July 13. Rather than sending a reply to the SCN Lt Gen Raj Kadyan issued a Email on 24 July at 10PM at night for an Emergency General Body meeting of IESM to be held on 28 July 13 at Gurgaon. This meeting was not proper as there was no call/representation from any member for any complaint against any action of Governing Body. Accordingly GB declared this meeting as ILLEGAL. On the 25 July GB met and waited till 1700h, time by which the reply to SCN was due from Lt Gen Raj Kadyan. No reply was received from Lt Gen Kadyan by the designated time. 13 members of GB (8 physically present and 5 on Email/Skype) discussed the situation and decided to terminate membership of  Lt Gen Raj Kadyan under rule 7 (d) (vi) of MOA for disobeying the decision of Governing Body. A communication was sent to him for termination of his IESM  membership wef 25 July 13. Similarly Hony Capt Nagender Singh and Hony Capt Bheem Singh who attended the Illegal Emergency General Body Meeting were also given the SCN. They also did not reply to the SCN and as per Rule 7 (d) (VI) of MOA their  IESM membership was also terminated.

13. Gen Sec had explained the circumstances leading to expulsion of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan Chairman from the membership of IESM. The GB had come to the AGM for passing following resolutions.

a) Resolution No 1; Does the house approve the TERMINATION OF IESM MEMBRSHIP  of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and thereby his removal from the position of Chairman IESM wef 25 July 13? The house approved with YES and all hands went up for approval of Resolution for termination of IESM membership  of  of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan wef 25 July 13. The members against the resolution were asked to raise their hands. There was NIL response to oppose the resolution. TERMINATION OF IESM MEMBERSHIP of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and his  removal from Chairman IESM wef 25 July 13 was approved with full majority with raise of hands.  There was  NIL opposition to the resolution. A member asked how many GB members attended the emergency General Body meeting of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan? He was informed only two members of GB of his village Jhajjhar attended the rival GB of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan. Members were satisfied and approved the resolution. Members also asked how many members of GB have come here to attend the AGM today. Members were told that 10 members are present here and two members are attending on Skype as they had some emergency and their tickets had to be canceled at last minute. All the ten members of GB were asked to come on stage to show the solidarity with the IESM members.

b) Resolution No 2; Does the house approve contesting against Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, terminated from IESM membership,  in any court of law to preserve the unity of IESM? The house approved with a YES with full majority by raising hands.  There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

c) Resolution No 3; Does the house approve TERMINATION OF IESM MEMBERSHIP of two members of GB Hony Capt Nagender Singh and Hony Capt Bheem Singh and thereby their removal from member Governing Body? The house approved the expulsion with YES and raised their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

d) Resolution No 4; Registrar Societies had ordered to amend the constitution of IESM by increasing the strength of GB from existing 17 to 21 and accommodate the four complainants as members of GB. This is for the information of all members that an invitation was sent to four complainants to join IESM GB if they so wish. They were asked to confirm that they are not member of any other GB of any organization. They were told that GB IESM has information that they had attended the Illegal Gen Body Meeting held by Lt Gen Raj Kadayn on 28 July 13. House has to decide whether these members should be taken in GB without resigning from rival GB of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan or not. Does the house approve of asking complainant members to resign from the rival GB to join GB of IESM?  The house approved with YES and raised their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution. 

e) Resolution No 5; House was asked if the complainant members do not accept this condition of resigning from the rival GB of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, Should their claim to join the GB IESM be rejected on this ground. The house approved with YES and raised their hands. There was NIL opposition to the resolution. 

f) Resolution No 6; House was asked if the complainant members do not accept this condition of resigning from the rival GB of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, Does the house approve the termination of their membership from IESM? The house approved with YES and raised their hands. There was NIL opposition to the resolution.

g) Resolution No 7; The house was informed that, with termination of membership of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan from IESM and from the Chairmanship of IESM, the position of Chairman IESM was now vacant. We need to fill this position. Cdr Ravi Pathak proposed the name of Maj Gen Satbir Singh for the position of Chairman IESM. It was seconded by Cdr PM Padhye. A member asked what is the guarantee that Maj Gen Satbir Singh will also not behave like expelled Lt Gen Raj Kadyan? Maj Gen Satbir Singh took an oath that he would always keep the welfare of veterans ahead of all other issues and always honor the majority decision of the GB. Does the house approve name of Maj Gen Satbir Singh SM for the position of Chairman of IESM? The house approved with YES  and raised their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

h) Resolution No 8; House was informed that, with the election of Maj Gen Satbir Singh as Chairman of IESM, position of Vice Chairman was now vacant. Brig S Luktuke proposed the name of Maj Gen PK Renjen AVSM and it was seconded by Col Kirit Joshipura for the post of Vice Chairman IESM. Does the house approve name of Maj Gen PK Renjen AVSM for the position of Vice Chairman IESM? The house approved with YES and raised hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

i) Resolution No 9; Members expressed the view that since the IESM is all India organization and has members in 16 states, it would be more appropriate to register it in Delhi, the National Capital. The house approved registering of IESM in National Capital with voice vote by raising their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

j) Resolution No 10; In the event of Registering of IESM at Delhi, it will be mandatory to dissolve the IESM registered at Gurgaon and merge all assets with the new organization registered at Delhi. All members of the IESM would be given membership of new organization to be registered at Delhi. Even membership of associate organization would also be transferred to new organization. Does the house approve of Registration of new society at Delhi and merger of asset and transfer of all members to new society to be registered at Delhi? The house approved with YES and raised their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

k) Resolution No 11; In case four complainant members are not included in the GB for the reason given above, GB is authorized to nominate four members to be included in the GB IESM. The house approved with YES and raised their hands. There was  NIL opposition to the resolution.

Amendment to MOA

14. The proposed amendments to MOA were discussed and approved with majority. The approved amendments are placed at App 'B' 

Address by Chairman

15.  Chairman Maj Gen Satbir Singh addressed the house and confirmed that he would always keep the welfare of veterans upper most in his list of priority and would ensure that all decisions would be taken by majority in GB of IESM.

16.  He informed the house that at the time of fifth CPC Government had ordered a study about the life expectancy after retirement of Central Government Employees. The study revealed that the Central Government employees have live till the age of 77 years. Similarly Indian Railways also conducted the same study and found that the railway employees live till the age of 78 after retirement. Government did not order this study for the defense employees. However Defense member of fifth pay commission conducted similar study with the same parameters. There was a shocking revelation that life expectancy for defense personal is only 59 to 64yrs for ORs, 67yrs for JCOs and 72.5 yrs. for officers. This means defense personal who had kept so fit throughout their service career live less by 6 to 20 yrs after retirement as compared to civil employees. This is a very dangerous situation and he had written to PM and RM to intervene and plan and execute suitable measures to correct this unwanted trend. He further informed the house that a Joint Secretary Mr Harbans Singh of DESW has been reemployed in the department and is being paid a salary of Rs 60000/ and a car from Armed Forced Flag fund. This is a criminal offense as Flag Day fund is meant for welfare of Armed Forces and not  to be used for payment of salary to civilians and that to for fighting cases in courts against the ex-servicemen. He informed the house that IESM had taken up this illegal appointment with the PM and RM. He informed the house that IESM has been getting calls from all over India and abroad for help and IESM has always risen to the expectations and had been extended all help to veterans and their family members and solved their problems. 

17. The Chairman informed the house that on a particular evening a girl called him and told him that her mother was very unwell and needed immediate hospitalization. She was crying and explained that she is daughter of a Naik who is working as a guard with a bank. Unfortunately the family did not have ECHS membership card. Chairman enquired about his date of retirement and asked the family to take the patient to ECHS polyclinic. In the meantime he spoke to MD ECHS and discussed the issue with him and found a solution. OC Polyclinic at Bangaluru was instructed by MD ECHS to attend to the veteran and issue him the card without any delay and attend to the patient. The lady was given immediate treatment and admitted in the hospital. She has recovered fully and is in good health. There are many such incidents of veterans being helped by IESM.

18. He explained that soldiers are being deprived of fundamental right of franchise. While all citizen of India have the right to franchise it is the soldier who keeps India safe has not been able to use his right to vote since last 60 years. Brig Ghuman has done pioneering work in this area. IESM and Justice for Jawan NGO has also contributed in this direction. He explained that there are 62 cantonments and veterans and soldier control 10 crore votes. He emphasized that if soldiers and veterans use their vote intelligently they can influence result of 150 MsP and around 450 MsLA in coming elections. He asked veterans and soldiers to get out of local problems and use their vote power to get their demands approved from Government. His point was very clear that in Indian system politicians understand only vote power of a group and hence we need to use our vote with due diligence.

19. He further informed the house that IESM has written to Presidents of all political parties about the demands of Ex-serviceman and asked them to clarify their stand on these demands. IESM delegation has had a meeting with BJP President Sh Raj Nath Singh on 9 September 13, who had confirmed that his party accepts all our demands and will approve them if his party came to power. He had also confirmed that these demands will be included in party manifesto to be written sometime in Dec 13. Consequent to this meeting IESM participated in the BJP rally on 15 Sep 13. IESM is open to all political parties and was ready to talk to them. A suitable decision will be taken at the appropriate time closer to national elections. IESM would also work to ensure that politicians with criminal background are not permitted to come to Parliament.

20. He further asked the house to extend their hand and support the GB. He said that even though GB has been authorized by the house to take day to day decisions to run affairs of IESM but the GB would need support of the all ex-serviceman and the house. He closed his speech with a call ' Sathi hath badhaana saathi re ek akela thak jaayegaa mil kar bojh uthaanaa'. He saluted the nation by giving call of JAIHIND AND IESM ZINDABAAD.

Audience Points;

21. Hony Capt Sohan Singh through Email; Since the pay of Hony Lt and Capt is same as that of regular service Lt and Capt, they should have same status. This issue is to be dealt with Army Hq. However this issue has been discussed at many occasions and had not been accepted. Hence no useful purpose would be served in taking up again.

22. 22. Hav Vikas Dawle;
a) Elections in India are due soon, it is time to pressurize the Govt to approve OROP. House was informed that IESM is working on the same thought process.

b) Ex-serviceman should be given 50% concession in Indian Railway. This issue was taken up earlier  but did not find favor of Government. IESM will take it up at appropriate forums at the right time.

c) ESM are not being treated at the appropriate level for jobs in Government and PSU. IESM is ceased of this trend and has already taken up with the authorities.

d) IESM should remain apolitical. Gen Sec confirmed that using once right to vote would not make any veterans political. However efforts are on to ensure that veterans recognize their vote power and use it to get their demands approved.

e) IESM website is not updated and should be updated at regular intervals. Gen Sec informed that the issue is in hand and the website will be attended soon.

23.  Sgt CG Shinde; 
a) District board members are rude. Cdr Ravi Pathak explained that the IESM Pen sion division had already lodged a complaint with authorities for their rude behavior. It will be taken up with higher authorities.

b) Reservist with 10 years of service should get pension. Cdr Ravi Pathak explained that the rules permit pension to a veterans with 10 yrs of service provided he was transferred in reservist list. He asked him to bring papers of affected veterans and if the case is genuine it will be taken up.

c) Some veterans have not been given membership of ECHS. Cdr Ravi explained that if a veteran is getting a pension he will get membership of ECHS. This is the rule. 

 24. JWO Kulakarni; ECHS empaneled hospitals are not admitting the patients. It was clarified by Chairman that please give us the name of hospital which is not admitting the patients and IESM would approach MD ECHS/Regional center for proper action. 

 25. Cdr G Sondurs; IESM should remain apolitical and help old veterans. Chairman confirmed that this is the primary function of IESM and will be upheld. 

 26. Veteran RD Pandey Ex-Serviceman welfare organization Dombivali; IESM should allot areas to veterans to work for welfare of ex-serviceman. Gen Sec confirmed that work is in hand to establish structure in states and districts.

 27. Col Mukesh Trehan; Pen slip for veterans is available on internet can be seen by interested veterans.



  1. Congratulations to GB for successfully handling affairs of IESM after chaos created by Lt gen Raj Kadyan. Long live IESM!

  2. Thanks for doings efferts for Ex-Armymen. Pl do something for Hony Naib Sub Pension to impementation as Naib Sub.Pl

    1. hello no one can do anything except the God... see your next job. feel u r alone

    2. orop over delay is not questionable ? pl share men ranks' poor ,inadequate pension.For officers can not afford comforts but havildar and below continue to note

  3. Sir, sorry to say. site is very poorly maintained. cant read anything. -pl close this useless site. sorry sorry.