Dear All,
1 . I have some general points to make on the OROP table released less than 48 hrs back (I leave with those veterans, knowledgeable on pension rules, the task to pin point specific instances of mistakes in these tables so that they can be rectified after due process of discussions with the concerned authorities).
(a) Nothing is absolute in this world-especially so in hierarchies like Govt where every thing is relative to other positions. Let us remember that. Now, to give some specific examples that I know of from personal experience. All Cols from 29.5 yrs to 33 yrs service have now been clubbed together at the max of pension at Rs 36,130/-. This is more than the pension what a Jt Secy (JS) in the GOI, with a pay of Rs.67,000/- to Rs.72000/-(?)receives. And, he is equivalent to a Maj Gen in the hierarchy. A Brig with a pension of Rs.37,750/- now receives more pension than an Addl Secy (equivalent in hierarchy to a Lt Gen) whose pay scale is fixed at Rs.75,000/-. A Maj Gen with a pension of Rs.38,763/- is obviously better than an Addl Secy here. All "Sada" Lt Gens with a pension of Rs.39500/- are almost there with a Secy to GOI, whose pension is Rs 40,000/-. As per the latest OROP tables, in addition to all Army Cdrs and VCOS (who were equated with a Secy since 6 CPC), even Lt Gens in HAG+ scale now get the same pension as that of a Secy.
( b) There is a saying in Malayalam, translated roughly as - "Anybody with a sword can act as an Oracle to the Devi". This is so especially in these days of internet and instant communication. Some XYZ wrote yesterday that the OROP tables are totally unfair and that veterans in various ranks and Veer Naris should have got ABCD more!. No relevant back up data is given-just off the cuff statements. Gullible that we are as a class, now everyone is quoting that mail as the bible-in spite of the fact that the author of that mail was an unknown entity till today-at least I do not remember seeing any mail from him till now in any Group (for all I know, he may be the cat's paw of ISI to stroke dis-contentment among the veterans by giving wrong figures and thus causing a spiking in demands!).
(c) If there are mistakes in the tables (they are bound to be with more than 120 tables or so, spread over 204 pages), let the knowledgeable veterans identify them and solve the problem through discussions with the concerned authorities /the judge of the commission appointed for this purpose.
(d) I am attaching a mail below, which shows the demands of IESM in Sep 15. The OROP tables have given us more than what IESM demanded there.
(e) As long as we are getting "equal pension for same rank with same length of service, irrespective of DOR", it should be OK. The four anomalies that IESM have raised with the RM and FM are still very much there and should be sorted out through discussions.
(f) Another bogey/red flag raised by some for the last few months is that since the re-look of pension is after 3 more years (in mid 2019), the Veterans will NOT be eligible for the 7 CPC scales. I know that there are no finite limits to fools in this world. But, do we still have to voluntarily join their ranks by spreading such canards?. It seems to me that this specific fear is beyond logic and common sense!.
(g) Finally, my request is that let the Veteran Orgs like IESM, IESL, TESWA and others (which have a standing), study the tables. They should take the help of the Service HQ's Pay cells, if needed. Anomalies can then be discussed and solved. I think the present RM is reasonable - even sympathetic.
(h) Many of us have a knack of antagonizing even our well wishers. Kindly do keep such characters away from the discussion tables.
(j) Most important, now that the OROP tables are out (and generally in consonance with our demand), the IESM should gracefully thank the Govt and withdraw the JM agitation. They have done an excellent job in keeping the OROP issue in the lime light and in the conscience of the Govt and the public. Now that phase is over, I feel the need is for ack this reality and close the agitation gracefully.
(k) The above has nothing to do with politics - but, every thing to do with the interests of the Veterans and of nation building. It is time for maturity in actions and NOT for scoring debating points.
2. This are my personal views, which I have exercised as my democratic right. If the "Tigers " feel that I am a "Jai Chand "-a word which is still the flavor of the season-, so be it!.
3. And, I hope that for a change, the reasonable and sane majority will express openly and in public what ever views they have rather than letting the loud few hijack the system. It will be good to have a discussion on the above points.
Bala
(Source- Via e-mail from Col NK Balakrishnan, (Retd)
a
ReplyDeletea
ReplyDeleteDear sir,
ReplyDeleteAuthor is very much interested in the welfare and well being of officers alone, there is yet another category that is other rank, a regiment can run without officers but not without jawans, again they have divided other rank category into X and Y
When did they(officers) speak for Jawans?
DeleteTrue, by speaking the anomalies in the OROP orders concerning the officers in senior rank alone, the senior veteran officers are at fault. For the time let them not concentrate of the ego problems and give their helping hand to correct the injustice to the PBOR veterans. Fight for the teeth of the forces.please.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis is the spirit. Interest of veterans is not above the nation. I hope the sane ones will be in majority.
ReplyDeleteCompletely in agreement with the Col, truly it is the time for acknowledgement and congratulate GoI under PM Shri Modi & RM Shri Manohar Paricker for bringing to very near closure the very sensitive issue of OROP.
ReplyDeleteVeteran JWO L. Ganesh Babu.
There are more discrepancies than what you expected.
DeleteHad the 6th CPC recommendations were implemented properly,then OROP problems could have benn reduced to 95% and there would be a clear vision on the deficiencies and disparities.Now start searching the black cat not in the dark but in the pitch dark
Sir,
ReplyDeleteSubedar with 17th years of Service & 23 yrs of Service has got same Pension.Is it justiciable. Why they are not considered Annual Increment.Like is the case Havildars,N/Subs& Subedar Majors.
Please look in to the Matter.
Yours faithfully
RK MENON
9249257760
Sir,
ReplyDeleteSubedar with 17th years of Service & 23 yrs of Service has got same Pension.Is it justiciable. Why they are not considered Annual Increment.Like is the case Havildars,N/Subs& Subedar Majors.
Please look in to the Matter.
Yours faithfully
RK MENON
9249257760
Sir,
ReplyDeleteSubedar with 17th years of Service & 23 yrs of Service has got same Pension.Is it justiciable. Why they are not considered Annual Increment.Like is the case Havildars,N/Subs& Subedar Majors.
Please look in to the Matter.
Yours faithfully
RK MENON
9249257760
Sir,
ReplyDeleteSubedar with 17th years of Service & 23 yrs of Service has got same Pension.Is it justiciable. Why they are not considered Annual Increment.Like is the case Havildars,N/Subs& Subedar Majors.
Please look in to the Matter.
Yours faithfully
RK MENON
9249257760
I agree with the views expressed.It is timetoexamine the details to get the anamolies rectified.
ReplyDeleteSince present orop ended with disappointment, one thing is clear that if the govt will have determination, the orop can be delivered with the revision of 7th CPC without any huge financial burden.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, the government thru its RM and FM ( yes, even PM )could have been more graceful, considerate and fair. There is no mention even of the midnight meeting, Dy. FM ,Mr Sinha had with the veterans after the FM, never bothered - shamelessly - to revert, clarify or take up the issue with RM last month. Despite all the above and with due respect to the sincere veterans for their great efforts the continuing protest at JM needs reconsideration to be replaced with fighting the case thru the one man judicial commission and then thru the supreme court. With the current arrogant Ministers in charge , the indifferent opposition and media please reconsider to replace the protest pattern at JM but not the fight.Changing the strategy doesn't mean giving up the fight.....
ReplyDeleteThe worthy Colonel. is happy that he and his brother officers have got. rise in status. He failed to notice that the OROP. for JCOs/OR has been changed. to One Rank Two groups and Two Pensions. I am sure the. Colonel did not bother to go through tje tables of JCOs/OR. Just. see the fear he is having in his mind being called Jai Chand. No further writing is required about his suggrstions. JCOs/OR feeling cheated. They are now planning independently their further move to get real OROP as approved in the Parliament.
ReplyDeleteA well argued article Col. Hope it brings cheer to the not so happy. I have three points. For the first time a PCDA circular talks of pre `73 & post 1960 retirees. This is because an officer wrote to the PCDA that his father was commissioned in the IInd EC batch in 1941, and retired at the age of 50 in 1969 with full pension upto 6th pay commission. The CCS rules were enacted in 1973, and therefore do not pertain to pre 1973 retirees iro pension reduction. This is one point that IESM must take up. The second point is that there is no table for the Cnetral Services, because the `last before one rule' has been applicable to them for ages irrespective of years of service(now popularly called NFU).So why not pitch for the same pension calculation rather than have reams of tables. Connected with the last point is the fact that the HSC has ruled for full pension after 20 yrs, and the GOI has given it to the petitioners involved. This is the way forward to have it implemented for the armed forces.
ReplyDeleteKanny
If the end is well, all is well. We have to thank the Govt. Ofcourse there are many other veteran issues, which can be discussed with the DM and sorted out. Even genuine issues of this OROP tables can also be taken the with the one man Judicial Commission. All ESM orgs have done a good job; particularly those who were in JM for the past so many months.
ReplyDeleteThere was an expert committee formed by the DM which submitted its recommendations. If the Govt implements the same, then most of the issues of veterans and serving ones will be sorted out.
A sensible article. The draw backsa in the circulars if ant to be brought to light and get it rectified, The agitation at JM may be called off gracefully and have discussion to remove the anomalies.
ReplyDeleteSgt.S.Kanthiah, veteran
But still, I must say that the Author is in the interest of pro Officer,All the points he mentioned are for Officer's only.In service period this (majority) community always treats other Ranks as untouchable and now in retired life they are interested for their benefits only.Shame on them.We have full trust on PM & DM,Due to their restless effort more or less this OROP notification came in to physically.Thanks a lot to them.Other anomalies could be resolved with discussions with the judicial commission appointed by the GOI.But this Officer community (majority) not trustworthy.They can change colour of their jacket at any time, according to their interest . So be careful whenever they come to you to discuss any matter in sweet words.
ReplyDeleteBut still, I must say that the Author is in the interest of pro Officer,All the points he mentioned are for Officer's only.In service period this (majority) community always treats other Ranks as untouchable and now in retired life they are interested for their benefits only.Shame on them.We have full trust on PM & DM,Due to their restless effort more or less this OROP notification came in to physically.Thanks a lot to them.Other anomalies could be resolved with discussions with the judicial commission appointed by the GOI.But this Officer community (majority) not trustworthy.They can change colour of their jacket at any time, according to their interest . So be careful whenever they come to you to discuss any matter in sweet words.
ReplyDeleteNation is and will remain above all interest also,agitation at JM is also no danger to nation any way.The door of discussion across the table & before the commission must be brought with reference to khoshiari commety, as passed by parliament & as passed by a commety headed by RM himself . Both side shall meet with open mind. Regards.
ReplyDeleteCol Bala Sir ,
ReplyDeleteHow can you be in agreement with the gross injustice done to Majors.Majors with 13 years to 20 years of service have not given any increase for the additional years of service put in above 13 years in the OROP table.They are paid a uniform amount of Rs 21530/-per month irrespective of the number of years of service they put in,thereby defeating the cardinal principle of OROP(Same rank with same length of service should be paid same pension)
We should be thankful to this Gov't for giving OROP
ReplyDeleteWe should be thankful to this Gov't for giving OROP
ReplyDeleteWe should be thankful to this Gov't for giving OROP
ReplyDeleteIt is a very sane advice that most of the OROP demands have been conceded rather going to be implemented.We should give credit to GOING & for the anomalies must talk & put up with the Judicial Commission.If some 20% job is left we musthink not discredit the rest 80%.I congratulate Maj.Gen Satbir Singh & colleagues for fighting for OROP cause successfully. If something is amiss we should talk it over rather than create a bad taste.
ReplyDeleteSub Maj Pal Singh Kurali. The worthy Colonel is extremely happy with the issue of OROP tables because he and his brother officers have been equated with. the status of senior IAS officers. He has failed to. have a look at the tables of JCOs/OR. The honourable RM has changed OROP for JCOs/OR to One Rank Two Groups and Two Pensions. Dear Colonel, Oh! Sorry, Colonel. Saheb please do not be afraid of being called ' Jai Chand" That is the fear of your inner guilt. Anyway thank you for your suggestion to thank the govt. Kindly read just one glaring. anomaly where a Naik if Y group will be getting the same pension ie. Rs 7170. from 7 years to 28 years service. Anyway we the JCOs/OR. would like to have an independent. approach to get the real OROP as approved in the Parliament. The. division of JCOs/OR into groups for the purpose of granting pension is deplorable. For them the efforts of 42 years have gone. ss waste of time and money. Only the officers have been rewarded for chanting the Mantra 'Sada Hak Aethe Rakh, " Bolo Mera Bharat Mahan".
ReplyDeleteIt is quite likely that wrong implementation tables for OROP have been issued deliberately, so that people will protest and Government will ask for more time to correct them.
ReplyDeleteCol Balakrishnan got his lion'share share,Let anybody else go hell.I have been watching and writing in this blog for quite sometimes.Whenever the topic is discussed with the Govt and or in media hardly any non officer cadre jawan is asked to speak.Only Lt Col and above will be asked questions and invariably that officer will speak for his rank.Col Balakrishnan can not deny this.
ReplyDeleteCol Balakrishnan like people were gentlemen cadtes once,they became officers and they never become gentlemen again in their life.They remain officers.
Col Balakrishnan how you were promoted upto the rank of the pesent one.To become a Col.what sort of training you have to undergo,I do not know.But I read only and of course I have not witnessed.Way back in 1980ies,in Readers Digest or in some other magazine,I do not remember exactly.It was written about the promotions of officers in Chinese Army.To get promoted as an officer, the very first training for him is, the officer is sent to Soldiers Barack.He has to live a life of a soldier for some times,wearing the uniform of sepoy,naik and havildar and so on,till JCO.Then he would be asked to pen down his experience.This training is compulsory and without this training he will never be promoted.It is a laid down rule in Chinese Army.
I would appreciate Col Balakrishnan,had he spoken about his jawans and if their legitimate demand is fulfilled.
Always the the letters from MOd are addressed to the three Chiefs who are occupying the glorious offices with the civilian battalions,clerk, typists and admin officers.The letters are also addressed to the PCDAPENSION.They interpret the contents in their own sense always always not to the benefit of the soldiers.In 5th CPC they refused to implement what the committee explicitly recommended.They wantedly discontinued the pension rules of PBORs namely taking the notional maximum,in the case of less than 28 years.In 6th CPC too they completely ignored the recommendations and the aftermath is a history,you are aware.In 6th CPC did not follow the simple pension rules although the rule of notional maximum is still alive and not changed.For example I am a JCO,x group.The corresponding pay scale for me is PB2 9300-34800.
Had the PCDAPENSION followed the simple pension rule taking the notional maximum for calculation of the pension of all the jawans who had less than 33 year of service,nobody would have gone to court.They did not do that.When they realised they had committed a serious mistake,they wanted to cover it up in the name of bridging the gap in pension of Jawans.They covered it up by appointing cabinet secretaries committee and played game as if they give alms to jawans.What the Service Chief did then.Why the letters are sent to them?What do they do with them? Who is the Godfather for us.Please remember, in this so called orop my pesnion is fixed as 12895.But if the 6th CPC recommendation that 50% of last pay drawn is the pension for PBORS who had more than 20 or more year of service,I am eligible for Rs 13590.Like me there will be lakhs of pensioner who are affected. You "the saviour of the soldiers",what you done or spoken atleast for me like people.
Now you can start building the nation.Now your stomach is full.
ReplyDeleteI fully concur and agree with you views.Hope our suggestions / recommendatins will be taken in the right spirit.
ReplyDeleteRamani
As you said, More can be done if we get on to study and correct the OROP proposal before us instead of sitting at the venue of protest at Jantar Mantar. We can still ask the judicial commission to recommend our other points of difference to rectify the diluted OROP implementation. Any anomalies raised with the RM and FM are to be sorted out through discussions. All we require is not confrontation, but a solution for the betterment of the veteran lot. All the veteran associations must come to end the impasse.
ReplyDeleteIt is quite likely that wrong tables for implementation of OROP have been issued deliberately, so that people will protest and Government will ask for more time to correct them.
ReplyDeleteOnly imaginary figures have been given in the table of pbor, no formula adopted for service. A Hav who served for 15 years service is getting equal pension who completed 24 years of service.
ReplyDeleteOnly imaginary figures have been given in the table of pbor, no formula adopted for service. A Hav who served for 15 years service is getting equal pension who completed 24 years of service.
ReplyDeleteCol. Don't bother about pbor. For ex. Take my self I am an x group JCO with 28 years service. The new table give me 100 rupees more in my basic.I want to ask if I died before 2018 is there any meaning OROP for me.For this we were fought for orop or fought for the benifit of officer category.col. statement is absolutely wrong. Wherever the payment is not the matter but what is the meaning of orop. He forget the sole and he comparing himself with secretaries that is his aim.
ReplyDeleteOROP table is pro officers and they are much benefited whereas jcos/OR have very marginal increase up to rs 1000 or less.why we did agitation with offrcers
ReplyDeleteJCOs/OR have been betrayed. Officers can enjoy as usual. PM Modi has not been appraised of the facts.why this 7500 cr budget if govt has only such an increase for jcos/ors
ReplyDeleteWhat for? First go through the Table; understand your benefit!!!
ReplyDeleteNo one is interested in PBOR, use and throw formula is being adopted by our senior leadership and also politicians. When country needs bravery and victory then JCOs and Jawans are required to blow blood in fore front borders, but when any welfare then senior leadership is benefited and PBOR are forever left behind the wall. Govt should open eyes, when everyone will come to know their right and duty then there will be no control. So wake up all thinker and scholars for respect and benefit PBOR
ReplyDeleteI appreciate effort put in by Col Bala to review OROP Tables.It may appear reasonable in totality(without rectification of projected anomalies by ESM groups).A large number of errors have crept into the Tables of PBOR.Amoung officers category,worst injustice is done to pre2006 Majors with 13-20 years service.Two officers with 13 yrs service-one pre2006 and other post 2006(so Lt Col) have a difference in pension of about RS. 10000-00.Very strange and against natural justice.
ReplyDeleteWelcome d decision
ReplyDeleteEvery body can't b satisfied
Sir,
ReplyDeleteWe are fools & remain so.Educate our young ones not to join.Siachisn will not occur for further
We must involve the world communities for our degraded status otherwise nothing is going to be changed. There are people still enjoying the divide and rule policy, otherwise we also could have become a developed nation by now. I think some people get enjoyment, if the subordinate staffs fight among themselves. The out side world comes to know the rank structures and some category of people's ego gets boosted up. The demand will be more then.
ReplyDeleteIt is an age old British tactics. More the problems less will be country's development. Till we treat every citizens equally, we are not going to be treated at par with the developed nations. If our leaders are satisfied with that, let them degrade the subordinate rank's status. Let the higher ranks, politicians enjoy with their good salaries and the PBORs cry in empty stomachs. Only God can save this country. No one else.
A PBOR who served 21 years and above should be given next higher rank pension like Major 21 years of service who granted next rank pension ie Lt Col.
ReplyDeleteCircular 555 is like circular 547 for pbor.
ReplyDeleteMy first point is : One Rank One Pension should simply mean that all who retired in same rank (example : Major) should receive same pension (Rupees " X " per month). There has to be a correlation between " X " and the scale of pay of a Major in active service. Kindly note that the number of years of service in the same rank is not considered.
ReplyDeleteMy second point is : If The One Rank One Pension is to be complicated with incorporating total length of service or with length of service in the same rank, then it is not OROP.
J J R David